Monday, July 25, 2005

I've been debating and thinking about this post for a little while now. How to word it in a way it makes sense. How to word it in a way it isn't insulting. I am posting about religion. Religion can be such a debatable, argumentative and touchy subject. I am not sure how to get my opinion across in a way that isn't insulting. Especially since I really want to rant about it.

I don't believe in an organized religion. I believe in being the best I can be. I don't believe I have to go to church to show I believe in god. I feel it is insulting for people to imply that unless I believe in the religion they do that I might go to hell or that I'm not as good a person as they are.

I hate the fact that people try to belittle others because they don't believe in the same religious organization. I mean how do they even know theirs is the right one?? The you just have to have faith isn't a good enough answer. There are so many different religions and they all want their people to have faith that they chose the right one... yet there is no explanation as to why it is the right one.

The thing that really drives me crazy though is the people that attribute everything happening in their life to God. People go on Survivor or Big Brother or American/Canadian Idol and say God put them there. Its Gods will that they won. What??? Why would God choose them over another person? Why would God say you are more deserving than this other contestant who also believes in me.

I understand that people believe God gave them problems to overcome. I believe the same thing. If things are tough I believe that they are tough for a reason and that God wouldn't give more problems than you can handle but the idea that each specific thing in your life is Gods doing is (in my opinion) wrong. How could God truly look over every single person and have a hand in every single thing.

It also takes away the importance of making your own decisions. Its a scapegoat. Easy to say oh I made the wrong decision and instead of being accountable you can just say well it was Gods will. Taking the blame off you. How can you be responsible for your own actions if you can attribute everything to God?


Blogger Gordy said...

Amen sister (no pun intended :-)

Religion is a difficult subject. Some religions that give absolution from all manner of crimes with a simple "confession", say a few Our Fathers and Hail Mary's, all is right in the world is all kinds of wrong.

I see beautiful churches, usually amongst the most beautiful buildings in any city or town, where we obviously spent a fortune to build them, but still have the church collecting money for the poor!

You can worship your God in a barn, a field or your basement. you do not need a million dollar property to do it.

Lastly, I also agree with the "just have faith" comment. I want proof. I would be more than happy to believe in the man (or woman, although have you noticed that even in this PC world, he is never a woman!) upstairs, but I want some proof.

4:48 PM, July 25, 2005  
Blogger lowk said...

Well, as a person raised to be a good catholic. (Don't laugh) I have to agree with you. Jesus did'nt speak of religion. At least that I know of. Faith is all you gotta have. A strong sense of right an wrong helps too.
Ever see Dogma??

7:51 PM, July 25, 2005  
Blogger Anonymous Midwest Girl said...

I agree with you so much! I am all for religioun if that's what people need to make them happy, but more often that not it ends up making them miserable.

8:19 PM, July 25, 2005  
Blogger Larry said...

You are awesome. I am very solitary in my belief of God and Jesus. I hate it when people are pushy about religion. I have tried to go to many different churches and have even found a few decent ones but, never felt quite right at any of them. I have faith that as long as I do the right thing I will be okay. I think God manifests himself to others differently and as long as they have something to hold onto and use as a moral compass they will be okay, too. My ex was a wiccan. You should have heard my mother and father(he has found religion rather recently yet likes to tell me where I am lacking. Funny, I have never, NOT believed in God) when they found out.

I have a friend who always says, "God, will point you in the right direction. But, you have to make the trip. Sometimes you will get turned around, but, He will leave you signs to help you find your way again." He has a rather long story to go along with that saying and I always appreciate hearing it but, will not waste a lot of space putting it in your comments section.

8:24 PM, July 25, 2005  
Blogger Applewhite said...

Good stuff.

8:46 PM, July 25, 2005  
Blogger Dirty Gypsy said...

What a coincidence that you posted about this today. I was just having a conversation with a coworker about this very same thing. I won't elaborate here, because that's what my blog is for, but I think you made your point well. For the most part, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

8:48 PM, July 25, 2005  
Blogger lowk said...

Btw, I updated like you suggested. :P

10:35 PM, July 25, 2005  
Blogger Labbie said...

Dani, a religion and spirituality post is coming up on my blog, just for you... It should be viewable in the morning... I will try to dispell your worries, my very young friend.

10:44 PM, July 25, 2005  
Blogger Danikabur said...

Gordy ~ There are many contradictions with religion. The million dollar churches while collecting for the poor is one. Another being it is 'wrong' to gamble and yet they run casino's or bingo's to raise money.

Lowk ~ I always meant to watch Dogma. I was raised to be Catholic as well. My Dad is still very much involved with the church. I was always so confused about the different religions. Like you said Jesus didn't speak of religion.. (that we know of) so why is there so many seperate religions. I also always wondered how we knew that we were following the right one.

Anonymous midwest girl ~ Nice to see you here again :) I agree.. religion tends to make people miserable. It can make people happy as well but taken too much to heart people live a life with restrictions.. which causes them to constantly worry that they are doing wrong.

Larry ~ Thank you. I don't even want to hear my Dads reaction if I brought a wiccan home... its bad enough (in his eyes) that I don't go to church.

I would be interested in the story your friend tells. I very much like the saying.

Apple ~ Thank you

Dirty Gypsy ~ That is co-incidental :)

Lab Boy ~ Dispell my worries? I'll read your blog... I'm not sure I have worries that need dispelling. Very young friend? I thought we were the same age... If you aren't referring to my actual age I'm not sure I like what you imply with that comment.

11:44 PM, July 25, 2005  
Blogger Labbie said...

You have some questions, some worries... I know. And, even if you are my age, you're still very young, no? So am I. I mean, we're not even close to being really old... like, 30. :p The post will be up in five minutes.

12:35 AM, July 26, 2005  
Blogger Mark said...

All these coincidences.. it must be God's work!

Sorry, I couldn't resist. I made a Wiccan comment on Callie's blog just before reading this.

12:45 AM, July 26, 2005  
Blogger Chris Nystrom said...

Great post!

I responded here.
My response was too long to put in a comment.

I think Mark is trying to push his religious views on the rest of us.

6:02 AM, July 26, 2005  
Blogger Callie said...

Dani - you and I know we agree on this subject. We both agree there is SOMETHING out there, and we both have issues with certain written works. Religion makes people second guess their every move. It also makes them less tolerant of anything different or deviant from the norm.

Lab Boy - you're very lucky I'm tolerant of "young people". If I weren't, I'd whoop your backside up one side and down the other. Must be my "lack of organized religion" that makes me so charitable toward such a young man who tends to open his mouth before thinking about who is really reading what he's writing, and who may be insulted in the process.

6:56 AM, July 26, 2005  
Blogger Steph said...

Danikins, I've had many thoughts and discussions with people that has sounded just like what you wrote. Those are my same feelings exactly. Organized religion is a confusing thing. I think that if I choose to believe in God, and to pray and whatnot, and to be as good a person as I can be, that should be enough. We're only human, we aren't perfect.

And the "Collection Plate" at Church always drives me nuts. That's just one hypocrisy of the Church though, you can find a lot.

7:22 AM, July 26, 2005  
Blogger Shanshu said...


I think many people share these views, but it's hard to find a time to bring it up, in conversations.

Using a blog is a good way to go it! Either that, or wait until your friends are drunk, and then tear into it.

You should read "Conversations with God" because it talks about similar things.

8:03 AM, July 26, 2005  
Anonymous lawbrat said...

Very well worded post Dani. Even when people have differing views, it shouldnt matter. 10 people can have 10 different interpretations of the same thing. We're all unique. Thats beautiful that we're not all cookie-cutter humans. We have our own thoughts and beliefs.

9:57 AM, July 26, 2005  
Blogger Danikabur said...

Lab Boy ~ Saying 'my very young friend' definitely has implications that I'm not happy with. You can explain it away saying you just meant we are both young but I'd appreciate that you take care not to be condescending on my comments.

My post wasn't about questions or worries. My post was about what I believe or how I feel. I don't have worries (fears, questions) that I haven't answered myself. Thank you for the thought of trying to help me out.

Mark ~ I think it is kind of funny that a lot of us bloggers (that visit the same sites as eachother) have thought to post either comments or posts about God around the same time.

Chris ~ Read your post. Commented. Very well written.

Callie ~ Yup you and I think very much alike. I tihnk thats what helps make us such good friends :)

Stephie ~ Like Callie you and I think a lot alike. :) I'm with you on the fact that that is just one of the many hypocrisies (sp) of the church.

Shanshu ~ Is conversations with god a book? Or is it online? I'll check it out. You are right.. religion is a hard subject to bring up.

Lawbrat ~ Thank you. I fully agree. There are so many different opinions and who knows which is the correct one. I just hope that I don't step on anyones opinions while I talk about mine.

11:03 AM, July 26, 2005  
Blogger Mark said...

Holy Hell!

I can cut the tension with a knife in here... much like Moses parted the Red Sea.

I feel so wicked, pushing my religion on people again.

neener neener neener!

1:24 PM, July 26, 2005  
Blogger Jennifer said...

Thanks for the comment. It's funny that you commented on what you did. I was referring to my nose being pierced and feeling as though people were judging me for it. I work at a church. I am what most people would call "religious" and I hate the title. I'm not "religious". I don't even like referring to myself as a "Christian" because of all of the crap that it implies.

I prefer to call myself a "follower of Christ" because that's what I am. I follow Christ and imitate my life after His - not what some religion tells me. Honestly, organized religion pisses me off - and the more I hear about it - the more I want to get up and leave my job. I feel like I'm surrounded by hypocrites.

I've worked at this church for 5 months now - and I got my nose pierced 2 weeks ago. And now, all of a sudden, I'm not a good role model. As if having a piece of steel through my nose all of a sudden changes my morals and values.

I don't blame you at all for not being a fan of organized religion. And as a follower of Christ, I would just like to ask you to not look at "Christians" but look at Christ. It'll make all the difference.

2:23 PM, July 26, 2005  
Blogger Danikabur said...

Mark ~ :P

Jennifer ~ I think you and I would get along just fine in real life. Even though you are 'religious' and I'm not really. You understand what I mean and wouldn't piss me off with your talk of religion. :)

Also I don't automatically judge someone that goes to church as someone I wouldn't like. Its the ones that preach their religion and try to shove it down my throat that I don't like. I know many people that attend one church or another and have no problems getting along with them.

I am glad to have not had the same reaction to my nose ring as you have had to yours. It is just another reason to dislike 'religious' groups. To look at someone differently just because they have a piercing is very closed minded. It isn't how a person dresses or chooses to look its about who they are.

3:23 PM, July 26, 2005  
Blogger 81 Vaginas said...

the last line really does it.
this easy way out for most people.
they are taught that if they follow some pretty specific rules, then they don't have to think about what is really moral and what is not.
i think it's awful when people have these mixed up notions about sex because of religion, and yet sex usually isn't harmful, but some God said no and so the same people taht get hard on everybody for fucking shovel dead animals down their throats though clearly something has been hurt, and all because some God said yes.

3:40 PM, July 26, 2005  
Blogger Larry said...

Damnit, Mark, you are so pushy.

4:58 PM, July 26, 2005  
Blogger Larry said...

Dani, on a day when I feel like exploring my take on religion, I will post my friends story because it is one that I will hold dear and carry with me for the rest of my life.

He is a youth minister at a churh in Kentucky and, through work I have had the pleasure of befriending him. I asked him one day how he managed to stay so strong in his faith(as mine was waivering at the time.). He went into it and this is the one part of that 3 hour conversation that I keep with me for when I feel mine slipping.

5:02 PM, July 26, 2005  
Blogger Labbie said...

What'd I say? What'd I say? Are you, Dani and Calli, pissy because of the youth joke? It was a joke! They do have JOKES where you're both from? Religion is okay to bash, just don't touch age? Must be a girl thing...
And I will write what I want to write because the desire to be free and say what I want to say is a right endowed in my be the Creator. Neener, neener, neener!

5:30 PM, July 26, 2005  
Blogger Larry said...

Okay, Dani, here are your five questions.

1. Given the oportunity, what is the one thing you would change about your life? Why?

2. Is there such a thing as fate?

3. How many licks does it take to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop?

4. What is the proudest moment of your life, so far?

5. If you could compare yourself to any one cartoon character, who would it be? Compare please.

5:44 PM, July 26, 2005  
Blogger MPH said...

I understand your concerns with religion and that is why Blog Jesus is there is take care of things that regular God and Jesus just don't have time to consider.

6:14 PM, July 26, 2005  
Blogger Danikabur said...

81 Vaginas ~ That is why I'm not really for Religious organizations.

Larry ~ I can't wait to read the story.
Also I'll answer your questions very soon.

Lab Boy ~ Yes you can write what you would like. However it is my right as writer of this blog to ask you not to be condescending.

If I am being sensitive then I'm sorry however if you read your comment you may understand why I (and Callie) were not too pleased with it. Also which is it? The comment was a joke? Or it was just saying I am young?

I (and I'm sure you can tell from my posts and comments) most definitely can take a joke. Callie can as well. I was not bashing religion. I was sharing my opinion. Like I said I'd appreciate you not being condescending to me or others on MY blog.

mph ~ love your blog!

10:01 PM, July 26, 2005  
Blogger Labbie said...

It was a joke. But, it's no problem... You'll never hear condescencion from me again. Laters.

10:24 PM, July 26, 2005  
Blogger Digitalicat said...

Rock on, Dani.

"And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you. And in praying do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do; for they think that they will be heard for their many words."

Matthew 6:5-7

11:41 PM, July 26, 2005  
Blogger Digitalicat said...

Also, I am the only one that noticed Lab Boy was quoting Star Wars?

11:42 PM, July 26, 2005  
Blogger Mark said...

Um, not all of us as big a geek as you.

11:54 PM, July 26, 2005  
Blogger Danikabur said...

I knew he was quoting Star Wars but thats what made it seem condescending. For it was said as a Jedi to a padawan (however that is spelled) which implies he is a teacher and I'm just learning.

It may have been (as he said) a joke. Instead of responding that it was a joke with more condescention (saying we can't take a joke.. and wondering if they have jokes where we are from) he should have just left it at it being a joke. I would have accepted and dropped it at that.

Thanks for the quote Digi. It goes along with what I was trying to say.

Nope you are right Mark not everyone is as big a geek as Digi but I sure am. :D

12:05 AM, July 27, 2005  
Blogger thecoolestblog said...

Cool blog and cool message

3:53 AM, July 27, 2005  
Blogger Chris Nystrom said...

What is this? First Mark pushing his religion on us, now Digitalicat quoting scripture at us? When can we get back to boating, and karaoke or whatever?

P.S. Disclaimer: The above is a (probably poor) attempt at humor. No condescension implied. :)

4:45 AM, July 27, 2005  
Blogger lowk said...

Well Dani. The one major fear I have of religious groups is that many wars have been started because of them. We would'nt have so much trouble with terroists if it was'nt for the religious fanatics.

6:04 AM, July 27, 2005  
Blogger Danikabur said...

thecoolestblog ~ Thank you

Chris ~ You bastard! Just kidding. I am working on a post with answer to Larrys questions. Will be ready to post soon.

Lowk ~ I find that scary as well.

8:53 AM, July 27, 2005  
Blogger Digitalicat said...

Mark - Don't try to hide your geekiness.

"There is a great disturbance in the force."

"Supreme Chancellor Joseph Ratzinger has been elected as the 265th Pope, and has taken the Sith name Emperor Benedict XVI."

"That's enough gloating for now. I'm going to go balance some rocks while doing a handstand."

"Nap time and Skywalker limbs"

Oh, yeah, that's right. I'm on to you.

Dani - Isn't that cool? Jesus says don't go to church. That's my all time favorite Bible passage. Of course, Mark 6 then goes on to explain that the only proper way to pray is to recite The Lord's Prayer, but still... cool quote.

8:57 AM, July 27, 2005  
Blogger Digitalicat said...

Oh, and don't worry about your geekiness, Dani. Hot chicks are allowed to be as geeky as they want. It's kind of a rule.

8:59 AM, July 27, 2005  
Blogger Danikabur said...

Whew! You just don't know how much the worry about my geekiness kept me up at night.


9:03 AM, July 27, 2005  
Blogger Callie said...

Yeah, I'm always worried about being a geek.



10:33 AM, July 27, 2005  
Blogger Aaron the Truck Driver said...

HEY MAN.. err Woman!

If it werent for god no one would ever find their lost car keys!

What ever happened to burning bushes and Sea's parting and old men holding stone tablets? And good v.s. evil?

You would think God would kick it up a notch. We have learned a couple things since jesus left.

I wish he send down a message saying something like.. STOP bothering me with your meager requests. Im going to do some radical interventions concerning your governments so you dont destroy what i created to beging with.

Yeah, now would be a good time for that!

2:21 PM, July 27, 2005  
Blogger Danikabur said...

You are absolutely right. Now would be a great time for that.

2:25 PM, July 27, 2005  
Blogger Motherdear said...

Beautifully written, Dani. And I agree with you 10000%, if that means anything. You've obviously given this lots of thought and you have figured out what makes sense to you. The important thing is that it works, you're a good person, and that comes through in your blog. It takes a lot of courage to get out there and say "Hey, I don't have the answers, but this is what I believe and how I choose to apply it to my life". And good for you - you've figured it out that it doesn't matter HOW you believe, or WHY you believe, it just matters that you believe. Bless you.

5:42 AM, July 28, 2005  
Blogger Danikabur said...

Thank you Motherdear! I've been noticing you around lately and have always enjoyed what you've said to others.

I think you are a wonderful person!

9:26 AM, July 28, 2005  
Blogger Maugham Malraux said...

There are some pretty great comments here (except maybe Lab-Boy who seems a little self-obcessed).

I find it interesting that even biblical literature itself is highly critical of "religion". The Prophets as well as Jesus seemed to reserve their harshest words for the "religious" types.

12:20 PM, July 28, 2005  

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